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	<title>Comments on: Soraya and Neda must be remembered</title>
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		<title>By: Adam G</title>
		<link>http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/2009/06/soraya-and-neda-must-be-remembered/comment-page-1/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/?p=710#comment-104</guid>
		<description>@UmmeJahan, You say: &quot;Do we really believe that people stoning an innocent woman to please an unseen God are more cruel than people who bomb thousands of innocent women for the sake of controlling their rulers and oil?&quot; I agree that both actions are wrong. What&#039;s important is that we not forget about one tragedy just because another has occurred. It&#039;s not a question of &quot;who is more cruel&quot; - this train of thought is not constructive and will help no one. Rather, we must focus one one issue at a time if we truly intend to solve anything. If we&#039;re discussing the human rights of women in Iran, we cannot wave other atrocities - no matter how tragic - in front of each other&#039;s faces and forget about the issue at hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@UmmeJahan, You say: "Do we really believe that people stoning an innocent woman to please an unseen God are more cruel than people who bomb thousands of innocent women for the sake of controlling their rulers and oil?" I agree that both actions are wrong. What's important is that we not forget about one tragedy just because another has occurred. It's not a question of "who is more cruel" &#8211; this train of thought is not constructive and will help no one. Rather, we must focus one one issue at a time if we truly intend to solve anything. If we're discussing the human rights of women in Iran, we cannot wave other atrocities &#8211; no matter how tragic &#8211; in front of each other's faces and forget about the issue at hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Ville Komsi</title>
		<link>http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/2009/06/soraya-and-neda-must-be-remembered/comment-page-1/#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>Ville Komsi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/?p=710#comment-84</guid>
		<description>MODERATOR! SORRY -- A BETTER BEGINNING THIS WAY. AND SOME MINOR CORRECTIONS...

Hopefully you are not telling us, UmmeJahan, that everything is just a question of who rules -- whether it is &quot;we&quot; or &quot;you&quot;?

OK, hypocrisy is counter-productive. Telling that we are pure and fine, altogether, and &quot;they&quot; are barbaric altogether doesn&#039;t help anyone and makes the world just worse. 

For instance: I have not read Betty Mahmoody&#039;s book (Not Without My Daughter) and probably will not either. Why? Because I have seen a splendid film document made here in Finland (2002) by Kari Tervo and Alexis Kouros with Bozorg Mahmoody, the father. Also Tehran and the USA were visited, and US-born former Tehran neighbors of the Mahmoody family interviewed. The most striking moments of the documentary showed several &quot;respectable&quot; American award granters telling bluntly that they were not at all interested whether the story was true or not -- they just thought it was a good, well-written and politically correct story, and they were making it a best-seller. Still more striking was the powerless figure of Bozorg Mahmoody visiting Helsinki, invited by the document-makers, trying here to contact, several times, by phone, the US consulate so as to ask for any chance to phone or send a message to her now almost-adult daughter in the US. The camera was filming, the phone call was taped, and the discourtesy from the employee (ending in an abrupt shut-off) was palpable. Still, finally, he somehow got a phone number to his daughter&#039;s student dwelling. Once she answered ... but shut immediately off. I might weep. At the end of the document, there definitely was no credibility whatsoever left for Betty M. and William Hoffer, the actual book writer. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Without_My_Daughter

I&#039;ve also seen Kim Longinotto&#039;s documentary &quot;Divorce Iranian Style&quot; (1998) of a day-to-day working of a moslem divorce court in Tehran. The warmth, humor and understanding in this document is heartening. She clearly had won the confidence of both the well-meaning old judge and his secretary, and of the divorce-seeking women. One of the latter actually admitted to the camera: &quot;I don&#039;t want to divorce, in fact -- just to make him a bit jealous and nicer to me.&quot;

http://www.wmm.com/filmCatalog/pages/c454.shtml

But Kim Longinotto was not there to say that everything&#039;s OK. She just wanted to show an everyday side of things, milder than macabre. Because we must have this understanding, too. Another documentary by her that I&#039;ve seen, &quot;Sisters In Law&quot; (2005) of female judges in a Cameroonian town dedicated to eradicate family violence, is equally heartening.

Now, I don&#039;t know what kind and quality this Soraya film is of -- and I certainly will see it if I can. Irshad&#039;s opinion of its value and necessity weighs much at me.

What I&#039;m trying to say is that black-and-white conceptions concerning even one person -- not to speak of whole cultural or political spheres -- are perilous. But that is a reason for trying to see all sides, not a reason to brush away the apalling sides. 

UmmeJahan&#039;s attitude seems to me just as counter-productive as the hypocrisy of the world rulers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MODERATOR! SORRY &#8212; A BETTER BEGINNING THIS WAY. AND SOME MINOR CORRECTIONS&#8230;</p>
<p>Hopefully you are not telling us, UmmeJahan, that everything is just a question of who rules &#8212; whether it is "we" or "you"?</p>
<p>OK, hypocrisy is counter-productive. Telling that we are pure and fine, altogether, and "they" are barbaric altogether doesn't help anyone and makes the world just worse. </p>
<p>For instance: I have not read Betty Mahmoody's book (Not Without My Daughter) and probably will not either. Why? Because I have seen a splendid film document made here in Finland (2002) by Kari Tervo and Alexis Kouros with Bozorg Mahmoody, the father. Also Tehran and the USA were visited, and US-born former Tehran neighbors of the Mahmoody family interviewed. The most striking moments of the documentary showed several "respectable" American award granters telling bluntly that they were not at all interested whether the story was true or not &#8212; they just thought it was a good, well-written and politically correct story, and they were making it a best-seller. Still more striking was the powerless figure of Bozorg Mahmoody visiting Helsinki, invited by the document-makers, trying here to contact, several times, by phone, the US consulate so as to ask for any chance to phone or send a message to her now almost-adult daughter in the US. The camera was filming, the phone call was taped, and the discourtesy from the employee (ending in an abrupt shut-off) was palpable. Still, finally, he somehow got a phone number to his daughter's student dwelling. Once she answered &#8230; but shut immediately off. I might weep. At the end of the document, there definitely was no credibility whatsoever left for Betty M. and William Hoffer, the actual book writer. </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Without_My_Daughter" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Without_My_Daughter</a></p>
<p>I've also seen Kim Longinotto's documentary "Divorce Iranian Style" (1998) of a day-to-day working of a moslem divorce court in Tehran. The warmth, humor and understanding in this document is heartening. She clearly had won the confidence of both the well-meaning old judge and his secretary, and of the divorce-seeking women. One of the latter actually admitted to the camera: "I don't want to divorce, in fact &#8212; just to make him a bit jealous and nicer to me."</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wmm.com/filmCatalog/pages/c454.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.wmm.com/filmCatalog/pages/c454.shtml</a></p>
<p>But Kim Longinotto was not there to say that everything's OK. She just wanted to show an everyday side of things, milder than macabre. Because we must have this understanding, too. Another documentary by her that I've seen, "Sisters In Law" (2005) of female judges in a Cameroonian town dedicated to eradicate family violence, is equally heartening.</p>
<p>Now, I don't know what kind and quality this Soraya film is of &#8212; and I certainly will see it if I can. Irshad's opinion of its value and necessity weighs much at me.</p>
<p>What I'm trying to say is that black-and-white conceptions concerning even one person &#8212; not to speak of whole cultural or political spheres &#8212; are perilous. But that is a reason for trying to see all sides, not a reason to brush away the apalling sides. </p>
<p>UmmeJahan's attitude seems to me just as counter-productive as the hypocrisy of the world rulers.</p>
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		<title>By: UmmeJahan</title>
		<link>http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/2009/06/soraya-and-neda-must-be-remembered/comment-page-1/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>UmmeJahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/?p=710#comment-78</guid>
		<description>If we really want to empower Iranian women then we should lift sanctions on Iran and let it develop as an independent country. We tend to repeat our pattern of &quot;help&quot; to oil-rich nations. We impose our own puppet &#039;king&#039; and if that fails, we demonise the regime and try to create instability by supporting several opposition groups. If that doesn&#039;t work, we demonise the culture and religion of the people and attack them with drones or &quot;shock and awe&quot; bombing raids.51% of Americans voted for Mr.Bush in his re-election.Do we really believe  that people stoning an innocent woman to please an unseen God are more cruel than people who bomb thousands of innocent women for the sake of controlling their rulers and oil?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we really want to empower Iranian women then we should lift sanctions on Iran and let it develop as an independent country. We tend to repeat our pattern of "help" to oil-rich nations. We impose our own puppet 'king' and if that fails, we demonise the regime and try to create instability by supporting several opposition groups. If that doesn't work, we demonise the culture and religion of the people and attack them with drones or "shock and awe" bombing raids.51% of Americans voted for Mr.Bush in his re-election.Do we really believe  that people stoning an innocent woman to please an unseen God are more cruel than people who bomb thousands of innocent women for the sake of controlling their rulers and oil?</p>
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		<title>By: mercy bell</title>
		<link>http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/2009/06/soraya-and-neda-must-be-remembered/comment-page-1/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>mercy bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/?p=710#comment-77</guid>
		<description>beautiful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>beautiful.</p>
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		<title>By: Neda Agha Sultan Video – Original – Shocking – Adguru.Org &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/2009/06/soraya-and-neda-must-be-remembered/comment-page-1/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Neda Agha Sultan Video – Original – Shocking – Adguru.Org &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/?p=710#comment-61</guid>
		<description>[...] The Moral Courage Project » Blog Archive » Soraya and Neda must be &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Moral Courage Project » Blog Archive » Soraya and Neda must be &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mehdi Rifai</title>
		<link>http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/2009/06/soraya-and-neda-must-be-remembered/comment-page-1/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>Mehdi Rifai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irshadmanji.com/moralcourageproject/?p=710#comment-60</guid>
		<description>“Sheik Hassan is of the opinion that she shouldn’t be buried at all…According to God’s law, no woman who has been stoned to death has the right to interment. That’s what Sheik Hassan says…He says that those who have strayed from God’s path have no right to be buried with those who have lived with dignity”

Actually, that&#039;s not true. Women who receive the punishment of stoning are considered to have atoned for their sins, and are actually accorded a full Islamic burial. Its the same as all those who have received punishment for their sins. There&#039;s even a story of a woman who willingly submitted to stoning during the prophet&#039;s time (the story is interesting because the prophet worked hard to dissuade her from being stoned, apparently). Some blood spattered on one of the apostles, and the man hurried to brush it off. The prophet stopped him, though, claiming her body had been purified of sin, and therefore her blood was not &quot;unclean.&quot; Interesting that people don&#039;t remember these kinds of stories when they practice Islam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Sheik Hassan is of the opinion that she shouldn’t be buried at all…According to God’s law, no woman who has been stoned to death has the right to interment. That’s what Sheik Hassan says…He says that those who have strayed from God’s path have no right to be buried with those who have lived with dignity”</p>
<p>Actually, that's not true. Women who receive the punishment of stoning are considered to have atoned for their sins, and are actually accorded a full Islamic burial. Its the same as all those who have received punishment for their sins. There's even a story of a woman who willingly submitted to stoning during the prophet's time (the story is interesting because the prophet worked hard to dissuade her from being stoned, apparently). Some blood spattered on one of the apostles, and the man hurried to brush it off. The prophet stopped him, though, claiming her body had been purified of sin, and therefore her blood was not "unclean." Interesting that people don't remember these kinds of stories when they practice Islam.</p>
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